[Penny]

I have a Grey that is going on 6 years old. The end of last summer/autumn she started losing her chest feathers in a small spot. Then, it started getting to be more and more and now her chest is almost totally bare.

I took her to an avian vet who tested her blood, etc. The vet found "Sassy" had a slight yeast infection in her mouth but, that was all. She had me put a grow light on her and gave me some aloe spray to mist her with. Nothing has helped. She has plenty of toys, not too many. She shreds the toys and she doesn't pluck.

Tonight Sassy came over and sat on my shoulder. She shook & four tiny feathers came floating down onto my lap. She is now almost totally bare chested. I am looking for ideas. The only thing we can think of is stress in the house. We have a business that we run out of the house and it is a high stress business that has been more so lately. That is all the vet and we can think of.

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[JAM]

Do you think it could possibly be an allergic reaction ? do you have anything that is toxic to parrots in the household...

Has her behaviour changed at all recently?

I am leaning towards something medically, and it doesnt hurt to get another avian vet's opinion either
But i am also agreeing with the stress.

What type of business do you run?
Is she in a high traffic area?
Who come's in contact with her during the day?
Where is she located in the house?
How big is her cage and how many toys does she have?
Is she on a healthy diet of Nuts,Grains,Fruits and veggies etc?
How much time do you and have been spending with her?
Has her routine changed at all in anyway?

Parrot's can be stressed and frightened easily, any one of these things can cause her to probably pluck herself, or something of the sort to cause her loosing feathers..

May i ask.. do you think she might be moulting? What do the feathers look like that she is loosing?
Can you show us a photo of her chest currently, where it is plucked?

We would like to help you as much as we can But keep in mind, any change of routine, etc can make a parrot highly stressed. especially if she can sense it off you, the behaviour that you have around her, will reflect from you to her.

Hope i can help you any way i can

[Penny]

Jasmineandme, on 09 March 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

Do you think it could possibly be an allergic reaction ? do you have anything that is toxic to parrots in the household...

Has her behaviour changed at all recently?

I am leaning towards something medically, and it doesnt hurt to get another avian vet's opinion either
But i am also agreeing with the stress.

What type of business do you run?
Is she in a high traffic area?
Who come's in contact with her during the day?
Where is she located in the house?
How big is her cage and how many toys does she have?
Is she on a healthy diet of Nuts,Grains,Fruits and veggies etc?
How much time do you and have been spending with her?
Has her routine changed at all in anyway?

Parrot's can be stressed and frightened easily, any one of these things can cause her to probably pluck herself, or something of the sort to cause her loosing feathers..

May i ask.. do you think she might be moulting? What do the feathers look like that she is loosing?
Can you show us a photo of her chest currently, where it is plucked?

We would like to help you as much as we can But keep in mind, any change of routine, etc can make a parrot highly stressed. especially if she can sense it off you, the behaviour that you have around her, will reflect from you to her.

Hope i can help you any way i can

________________________________________________________________________________________________


Hi,
Thank you so much for your quick reply. You ask many of the same questions the vet did. Unfortunately, we only have found 1 avian vet around.
I cannot think of what Sassy would be alergic to although that would be something we haven't thought of. We haven't gotten her anything new. Her cages have been in the same place they have been for years and my business is Real Estate and we work out of our living room. It is busy and she has grown up with it. She always has to have me in her sight, even at night and at one point I thought I had too many toys in her day cage (which is 3' x @3' x 5 1/2' tall). She is out of her cage all day and come over to me on her own at night, sometimes during the day.
At night she goes into her night cage where she is only across a small room from me, she always has to keep me in sight. She was very upset whenever we try to cover her cage totally so we have to leave a bit uncovered at the bottom so she can hang or sit on the bottom and watch. She gets 12 hours of sleep a night.
She is on Harrison's coarse.
The only thing I don't do on an every day basis is clean her cage simply because I am not that healthy and it takes a lot out of me but, that has been like that all these years. Everything else is exactly the way it should be and I have never seen her pluck, ever. Like I said, she only shook and 4 tiny feathers fell.
If she were moulting, she has been doing it for the past 8 months.
If it is stress, I don't know how to help her. If I were to take her and put her in a room by herself, she would hate it and screech the whole time.
I can't get a picture right now because she is in "bed."

[JAM]

Penny, on 09 March 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

Hi,
Thank you so much for your quick reply. You ask many of the same questions the vet did. Unfortunately, we only have found 1 avian vet around.
I cannot think of what Sassy would be alergic to although that would be something we haven't thought of. We haven't gotten her anything new. Her cages have been in the same place they have been for years and my business is Real Estate and we work out of our living room. It is busy and she has grown up with it. She always has to have me in her sight, even at night and at one point I thought I had too many toys in her day cage (which is 3' x @3' x 5 1/2' tall). She is out of her cage all day and come over to me on her own at night, sometimes during the day.
At night she goes into her night cage where she is only across a small room from me, she always has to keep me in sight. She was very upset whenever we try to cover her cage totally so we have to leave a bit uncovered at the bottom so she can hang or sit on the bottom and watch. She gets 12 hours of sleep a night.
She is on Harrison's coarse.
The only thing I don't do on an every day basis is clean her cage simply because I am not that healthy and it takes a lot out of me but, that has been like that all these years. Everything else is exactly the way it should be and I have never seen her pluck, ever. Like I said, she only shook and 4 tiny feathers fell.
If she were moulting, she has been doing it for the past 8 months.
If it is stress, I don't know how to help her. If I were to take her and put her in a room by herself, she would hate it and screech the whole time.
I can't get a picture right now because she is in "bed."

I'm sure the photo can wait until tomorrow, no harm done
has she lost any other feathers when she shakes ? after you saw that happen, when did it last happen or did you see it only once?

how long have the feathers been missing from her chest, or in other words how long has this been occurring for ?

I can't see any other way she might be stressed, inless you are stressed from thing's going on at the moment with the business.
If you haven't changed anything at all.

May i suggest giving her some red palm oil (organic) and that might hopefully make some improvement and it is healthy for them

What is it that you feed her, fruits and veggies, nuts and grain wise ?

how much sunlight does she get everyday?
Do you smoke? If so, do you smoke in the house?

[Penny]

Jasmineandme, on 10 March 2010 - 12:17 AM, said:

I'm sure the photo can wait until tomorrow, no harm done
has she lost any other feathers when she shakes ? after you saw that happen, when did it last happen or did you see it only once?

how long have the feathers been missing from her chest, or in other words how long has this been occurring for ?

I can't see any other way she might be stressed, inless you are stressed from thing's going on at the moment with the business.
If you haven't changed anything at all.

May i suggest giving her some red palm oil (organic) and that might hopefully make some improvement and it is healthy for them

What is it that you feed her, fruits and veggies, nuts and grain wise ?

how much sunlight does she get everyday?
Do you smoke? If so, do you smoke in the house?

The shaking and the four feathers landing in my lap just happened tonight. I have seen it happen before but, never was it so noticable as it was tonight with 4 tiny feathers right in front of me. I am use to the white, downy type feathers and now and again a red feather or grey feather being dropped but, these feathers are the baby grey feathers that make up her chest feathers and they are just falling out.
She doesn't pluck. This has been going on for about 8 months. We don't smoke, no. She eats anything I eat as well as the Harrison's coarse food is her main diet. She just insists on having something of whatever I have (or she thinks I have). If it is something she can't have, say chocolate, I will give her a couple small pretzels so she thinks she is eating the same thing. Makes her happy.
If I start eating without giving her some of mine, she sits over and starts saying "Hey! Penny!" Then she will whistle, etc. She'll say "Come here!" She definately gets her point across.
I am highly asthmatic so, there is no chemicals, perfume, smoke, etc. allowed in my house.
She does not get bird seed. She will get an occassional peanut.
I will give the palm oil a try. We had construction done to our house (not near Sassy). It went wrong and now we are in a legal battle, thus the stress. The building was to be for 3 months, it went on for 8 months and it was done all wrong. Her feathers started falling a couple months after the building started so, I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not, it certainly could coinside with the stress. I just don't know how to help her with the stress.

[Tattooed parrot girl]

How frustrating for you and Sassy, sounds like she's got a great life and diet. As JAM said, all I could think of to suggest would be RPO (red palm oil). It's worked wonders for some people on the forum, I give it to Alfie my CAG - he loves it! Or if you can get her actual palm nuts they love them too, both are very good for them.

Sorry I can't think of anything else - there are some far better informed forum members who I'm sure will be along to help though!

Welcome, by the way!

[Mama2ManyMouths]

When feathers shake out like that, it sounds like moulting to me. What is the condition of the skin in the "balding" area? If it's pink and supple, then I don't think she is suffering from a skin problem. What condition are those feathers (a photo would be helpful). I'm asking because feather mites can cause similar symptoms and aren't easily detected and often misdiagnosed.

Are the feathers complete, with full shafts, or are they chewed off? Have you seen her "worrying" that area of her chest?

[Penny]

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Mama2ManyMouths, on 10 March 2010 - 04:28 AM, said:

When feathers shake out like that, it sounds like moulting to me. What is the condition of the skin in the "balding" area? If it's pink and supple, then I don't think she is suffering from a skin problem. What condition are those feathers (a photo would be helpful). I'm asking because feather mites can cause similar symptoms and aren't easily detected and often misdiagnosed.

Are the feathers complete, with full shafts, or are they chewed off? Have you seen her "worrying" that area of her chest?

I hope you will be able to see these pictures along with the post. Here are the feathers and here is Sassy's bare chest. You can count her 6 remaining feathers. Part of her chest is pink. It is rough to the touch. She doesn't "worry" the area but, this area has been bare since Aug. or Sept. and I don't think that is molting, is it?
Where would she get mites from as she is an inside bird. However, now that I think about it, we go out RVing and I take her out. She will jump down if she gets startled but, can't fly as her wings are clipped. Could she have picked up mites then? She is never around other birds.

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[Picco]

i dont think its normal molting as there wouldnt be any bald patches, there would always be chest feathers/pins...

like JAM said a second vets opinion would advisable but i understand thats the only one you've got in the area, RPO has worked wonders for most of our greys and other fids here so you should give it a try....also how about putting her on a good supplement? that way if any much needed vitamin is missing from her diet she would be getting it via the supplement.

[Dee]

Sounds like molting to me too ... and the pics don't look like shredding or plucking.

Feathers that are just falling out are molting ... a bare spot would mean plucking. Both could be happening ...


You mentioned in your original post that her chest is bare ... can we see a pic of that. A bare chest would be plucking ... they won't just fall out .. and leave an entire area bare ..

Birds molt in a sequence that is easiest on them so as not to leave any area vulnerable especially the wings .. and you won't see a bald spot from molting ..

[CrazyParrotLady]

Bare spots sound like plucking to me... but the picture looks like a heavy molt.

Do you like the avian vet you saw? How competent did s/he seem?

[Penny]

Thank you everyone. I have posted a picture of both some of the feathers and also a picture of her chest with her 6 remaining feathers showing. I never see her pluck and she is near me all the time. I am thinking mites may be a good idea but, where would she have gotten them and wouldn't the vet had seen them? How can I tell and how do I get rid of them?  Picture 005.jpg (121.72K)
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Dee, on 10 March 2010 - 03:34 PM, said:

Sounds like molting to me too ... and the pics don't look like shredding or plucking.

Feathers that are just falling out are molting ... a bare spot would mean plucking. Both could be happening ...


You mentioned in your original post that her chest is bare ... can we see a pic of that. A bare chest would be plucking ... they won't just fall out .. and leave an entire area bare ..

Birds molt in a sequence that is easiest on them so as not to leave any area vulnerable especially the wings .. and you won't see a bald spot from molting ..

[Dee]

Hard to tell but that area could be plucked .... When do you notice the feathers? Oddly enough many pluckers don't pluck in front of anyone .. they tend to pluck in private and usually when they are bored or at night when everyone is sleeping. Do you notice a lot of feathers in the morning?

Perk plucks on and off under his wings and I have yet to actually see him pull out a feather as he would do it at night after he was covered ..


Mites can't be seen with the naked eye ... The vet will need to test for them. The test is apparently very easy and results are instant. If positive for mites then a topical medication can be used .. but they need to test for them first to be sure... It can't hurt to ask the vet to test for mites ... that way you can at least rule it out ...

Can you hold a feather up to the light and see holes in the shaft? Is the chest area the only part that is balding?

[Penny]

Dee, on 10 March 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Hard to tell but that area could be plucked .... When do you notice the feathers? Oddly enough many pluckers don't pluck in front of anyone .. they tend to pluck in private and usually when they are bored or at night when everyone is sleeping. Do you notice a lot of feathers in the morning?

Perk plucks on and off under his wings and I have yet to actually see him pull out a feather as he would do it at night after he was covered ..


Mites can't be seen with the naked eye ... The vet will need to test for them. The test is apparently very easy and results are instant. If positive for mites then a topical medication can be used .. but they need to test for them first to be sure... It can't hurt to ask the vet to test for mites ... that way you can at least rule it out ...

Can you hold a feather up to the light and see holes in the shaft? Is the chest area the only part that is balding?

For a while she was losing the feathers under her wings on her back but, they seem to be filling back in. Remember, this has been going on for about 8 months now and I don't think molting would last that long as it never did before. Also, none of her feathers are chewed. Also, when she shakes, the feathers fall. Her breast has been where it has been bare and remained bare all this time, just not regrowing at all, no even a single feather.

[Dee]

It can't hurt to get vet to do a mites test ... just to be sure.

Perk's plucked feathers were never shredded ... when he plucked he would just pull them right out. He didn't waste anytime shredding them.

He went for a long time not allowing any feathers to grow under his wings. We would see nice little feathers and the next morning they would be in his cage ... Anything he loosened up would just fall out when he shook ... The only thing that our vet felt was good is that he hadn't expanded the plucking area ... He was bald to the point that our vet thought he may never have regrowth ...

Having said that ... he now has some feathers under his wings and they are a pink colour ... the vets said that many times a grey that plucks may have feathers come in red in the plucked area as the follicles have been damaged... I have my fingers crossed and hoping that he is being kept busy enough that he will leave them alone ...

You mentioned your vet did blood work .. do you know if he tested for PBFD ... That would be the last thing I would want to bring up ..

[Mama2ManyMouths]

From the appearance of her skin on the bare patch, I would definitely get her checked for mites &/or any other parasites. This will involve a little scraping of the skin and a feather or two. Have the vet look at those feathers that you have, they don't look quite right to me and make me suspicious that she could very well have an early case of mites.

Fingers crossed that this can be diagnosed quickly, as early detection and treatment will prevent it from spreading.

As for the source, mites can be picked up ANYWHERE, especially out of doors. They thrive in most environments, or lay dormant in inhospitable ones until they land in the "right place to start a family." Then they get busy and burrow in the skin or hide in feather follicles, and make themselves at home. Only when they are so bad that they invade the bird's air sacs (avian lungs) do they really put the bird's survival at risk. Frequently misdiagnosed until the situation is nearly irreversible, it's important to have an avian vet that's "on the ball" and very keen to investigate the problem before it gets out of hand.

P.S. Here's a link that highlights parasitic problems in "pet" birds: Common Bird Parasites

. . . and an excerpt:



"Arthropods

Arthropod parasites of birds include mites, lice, and ticks. The infestations can occur on the skin or feathers, although a few may infest the respiratory tract. Some of these parasites have their entire life cycle on the bird while others live part of their life in the environment. Symptoms include feather chewing, feather loss, poor feather quality, and skin inflammation. The parasites can sometimes be seen on the bird with the naked eye. Treatment depends on which arthropod is found."

This post has been edited by Mama2ManyMouths: 11 March 2010 - 03:51 AM
Reason for edit: added P.S. & link

[Penny]

Dee, on 10 March 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

It can't hurt to get vet to do a mites test ... just to be sure.

Perk's plucked feathers were never shredded ... when he plucked he would just pull them right out. He didn't waste anytime shredding them.

He went for a long time not allowing any feathers to grow under his wings. We would see nice little feathers and the next morning they would be in his cage ... Anything he loosened up would just fall out when he shook ... The only thing that our vet felt was good is that he hadn't expanded the plucking area ... He was bald to the point that our vet thought he may never have regrowth ...

Having said that ... he now has some feathers under his wings and they are a pink colour ... the vets said that many times a grey that plucks may have feathers come in red in the plucked area as the follicles have been damaged... I have my fingers crossed and hoping that he is being kept busy enough that he will leave them alone ...

You mentioned your vet did blood work .. do you know if he tested for PBFD ... That would be the last thing I would want to bring up ..

What is PBFD? I think I am going to take her to the Vet and have her checked for mites. That is the only thing that makes sense.

[Mama2ManyMouths]

Penny, on 12 March 2010 - 06:04 PM, said:

What is PBFD? I think I am going to take her to the Vet and have her checked for mites. That is the only thing that makes sense.

Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease

[Penny]

Penny, on 12 March 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

What is PBFD? I think I am going to take her to the Vet and have her checked for mites. That is the only thing that makes sense.

Well, I thank everyone for all of your help. We have now had her tested for everything we can think of and she is clear. I have taken many of her toys out of her cage fearing I had too many and she wasn't playing with any toys except one, a roll of adding machine tape.
She has to be damaging her feathers by worrying over them caused by stress and also, she has had an on going yeast infection.
The only other thing that the vet can think of is that she probably needs to forage for her food.
I can get her foraging for the food. I don't know why she isn't interested in any of her toys. Does anyone have any ideas on that? She really isn't tearing on the tape anymore, either.
Would getting another bird help?
Thank you.

[EinsteinsMom]

I don't think getting another bird would help, it might even make things worse if she didn't like or get along with other bird.

Maybe she is bored with her toys? einstein has an adding machine tape toy too, he goes through phases where he chews on it a lot and then will ignore it for a few days. You may have to just keep trying different things. Also you want to make sure that she has plenty of different types, like for example wood, leather, paper, palm shreders, etc to keep her occupied. For example Einstein has about 10 or more toys in his cage and at least that many on his playstand. some are really simple like a vine ball tied on with a bit of natural fiber rope. He also has buckets in both his cage and on his playstand that I fill with foot toys, treats and simple foraging toys like: some pieces of dry pasta wrapped up in a paper twist or different items put in a brown paper lunch bag and folded shut and so on. Even just wrapping up the foot toys in paper will help. einstein also has a couple plastic foraging toys like these:
http://yhst-51898397...indafortap.html
http://www.birdsuppl...ack+rack&Page=1
Another thing that keeps Einstein really occupied and might entice her to play is string pasta on leather or rope, then hang in the cage - he goes through it quickly but it's one of his favorite things. I also sometimes mix small pasta pieces and a very small amount of cockatiel seed in a small dish and he loves that too.